Adding in Taylor data from non-Family Tree projects

Family Tree DNA is offering special pricing to include people who have tested their y-DNA with other companies.  This is important to the existing members of the Taylor Project at FTDNA, and to other people who have tested at other companies.  Why?  Because everyone new being added to FTDNA brings more matches.

If you are currently a FTDNA member, tell your friends about this.  You also can expect to pick up new matches as more samples are added to the entire database of y-DNA.

If you are a member of another project at a company other than Family Tree DNA, you can add your sample to the world's largest genealogy DNA database and will then have much more likely matches!

To summarize, in the words of our project leader Ralph Taylor:

§ For $19, Taylors with Ancestry (or other testing company) results can transfer to FTDNA and join Taylor Family Genes. Their results can then be compared and possibly matched.  We could pick up as many as 200 additional members.


§ For another $39 ($58 total), they can add analyses of markers “missing” from the FTDNA 25- or 37-marker panels to make for consistent comparisons.

If you are a person who has tested elsewhere, go directly to the FTDNA website to arrange to be included in the largest database.

If your sample is already at FTDNA, encourage others to take advantage of this opportunity.  It is a way to find more matches for all of us!

I certainly am looking for some missing "links" on some of my family lines.

Lalia

The Case for Using Family Finder in a Surname Project

Members of the Taylor Project have almost all participated by means of y-DNA testing. You submitted a sample, provided a basic pedigree and the name of your earliest know Taylor ancestor and now (ideally) you are matched with a group of Taylors. Your group descends from a single line and the other group members are your cousins.

In an ideal world, you know your exact relationship with each member of your Taylor group. Knowing this relationship, each of you can now claim your combined paper trail of lineage.

Isn’t that why you have participated in DNA testing?

Well, it doesn’t always work out like that. And you, dear reader, may be one of the people who is an exception to the ideal portrayed above. This is where the Family Finder test can be of great benefit. The Family Finder test looks at autosomal DNA, which is inherited from all of your lines of descent, not just the male-to-male lineage of y-DNA or the female-to-female lineage of mitochondrial DNA. It is a way to investigate all your lines.

I’m writing this because there is a price reduction on this test for current FTDNA members. Take advantage of a major price reduction through June 22nd.

What can the Family Finder test contribute? Let’s look at several situations.

First, you are a male Taylor, you have a fairly close match with other Taylor project members, enough to form a group, but you don’t know your exact relationship. If you and others in your group do the Family Finder test (henceforth FF), you can close in on your relationship. For example, if your y-DNA suggests a 50% likelihood of a common ancestor within 6 generations, doing the FF will indicate if your common ancestor is within seven generations (the equivalent of 5th cousins) and suggest the number of generations between you. This should focus on exactly where to look for the paper trail indicating a common ancestor. It also may help identify a relative who has not yet tested who would be “the missing link.”

Second instance, you are a female Taylor. You don’t have any y-DNA, and you don’t know any living male Taylors of your line. Doing the FF test will allow you to match with Taylor males currently unknown to you. You can then use their Taylor group, from their y-DNA results, to work towards your earliest Taylor ancestor.

Third instance, you are a male Taylor. Your y-DNA did not match any Taylor line, but did match another surname project. The evidence is pretty conclusive that one of your male ancestors carried the name Taylor, but was not biologically a Taylor. However, you do not know when that NPE (non-parental event) occurred. Was it in your generation? Five generations? More? With the FF test, you can compare your results with other known Taylor relatives, second cousins, great aunts and uncles. If you match them, the likelihood is that the NPE occurred prior to the births of all those tested, and that a common ancestor of all of yours came subsequent to the NPE. (However this inference cannot extend beyond seven generations due to limitations of the testing, nor can it extend beyond the parameters of your individuals sampled.)

Fourth instance, you are a male with a non-Taylor surname. Your y-DNA matched the Taylor line in multiple close matches. You don’t know when the NPE occurred. You do the FF test. If you match a Taylor group with the FF in addition to y-DNA, this suggests the NPE occurred within the last seven generations. It may be fewer generations depending upon the FF results. At least you can begin to discover your roots.

Finally, what about the unique individual who has tested 67 y-DNA markers and mt-DNA and has no matches? I know one of these people. We hope with the FF test to finally find someone who matches!

I look forward to us all finding out our ancestry.

Lalia

Collaboration is the Name of the Game

A lot of work goes on behind the scenes of this Taylor DNA project. Among what happens is that the administrators are actively working with project members to facilitate a win-win experience for all. One of the principal parts to making your experience with the project a success is offering as much information as you can about your family lines—excluding personal information on living persons.

 

On your personal page at www.familytreedna.com, you have ways to input data about your father’s line, your mother’s line and all family lines. These can be input as a gedcom or individually.

When you post this information, it allows near-matches to begin to see where their line connects with your line. For best results, all project members should be forthcoming with family pedigrees.

But your job is not over! A next part is to actively collaborate with people who ask you for information. This means responding in a timely manner to project members who inquire about possible connections. It means responding thoughtfully. It means being responsible for your own safety and protection as well—don’t share mother’s maiden names or birthdates or social security numbers for living people!

It may be that you get a lot of e-mail; I do. If you are busy, give a quick response. “I got your message. I may have some information on your question. I cannot get to it until after the 20th. Please contact me again if I don’t get back to you.”

 

I have been in many conversations with project members and other genetic genealogists about how to best work collaboratively. Here are some thoughts from our member Richard A. Taylor:

 

I don't understand why so many folks spend all their money and time testing with FTDNA or some other DNA testing company, joining the Family Finder group and/or signing up for any of the many groups, projects or blogs and then DO NOT SUBMIT FAMILY TREES, GEDCOMS, MULTIPLE SURNAMES OR NOTES ABOUT THEIR FAMILY ORIGINS AND WORST OF ALL - DO NOT REPLY TO A CONTACT E-MAIL MESSAGE OFFERING TO SHARE/COMPARE INFORMATION!!!

 

I've sent out e-mails to three people listed as possible matches, 2 for my line and 1 for a friend’s Taylor line, without any reply or acknowledgement. Reckon this is sort of analogous to "leading a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

 

Why go to all this trouble if you're not going to respond or share any info?

I know that Dick’s a bit annoyed in his tone above, but he is simply repeating some of the frustration that all of us face as we start working through our matches in the Taylor project (and with our other related lines).

 

To the extent we can, we should work to make our own experience and that of our related lines as pleasant as possible. We can do this by submitted your family pedigree, or gedcom.

• Did you post your earliest known ancestor (of your male Taylor line)?
• Have you posted your earliest know female ancestor on your female-to-female line?
• Finally, if you are doing the Family Finder test, have you posted all the known surnames for all your lines in the last seven generations?

By completing these details, which are about people who are usually many years deceased, you improve your chances of determining how you link to anyone whose DNA you match. You also improve the ability of those you match to find their link with you. (This is because the person you match may have more family information than you have, which is a blessing in that it adds important family information you may not have known about.)

 

Lalia

  

Always happy to share Taylor or any other info I possess. My wife (surname Ford/Foard from MD to NC to TN to VA) and I have been researching since about 30 years or more.

 

 Richard (Dick) A. Taylor

 

 

 

 

 

67-Marker Matches

Hi Again,

I'm continuing with more material from Ralph Taylor on the meaning of matches. What does it mean if you match 67 out of 67, commonly written 67/67, with another person? There is about a 50% likelihood that you share the same great-grandfather! Thus, you are second cousins. You could be slightly closer related or slightly more distantly related, but you are related recently as genealogists measure relationship!

As Ralph Taylor says, "67-marker matches, if you’re lucky enough to find one, are very precise; you may need to account for the birth dates of the matching individuals. The main problem is that most people have done a lesser test, so you can only compare against the markers they had tested." Thus, refer to earlier blogs which discuss 37 marker matches and fewer matches.

Should you match in the range of 65-67/67: You share a common ancestor and he almost certainly lived within a genealogic time frame.

o A perfect 67/67: The 90% probability level is a TMRCA of <= 11 generations, >= 1735 AD; 70% is <= 6 gen., >= 1860 AD; & it’s 50% probable that your common ancestor is your great-great-grandfather.

o 66/67: 90% is <= 18 gen., >= 1560 AD; 70% is <= 18 gen., >= 1730 AD; 50% is <= 7 gen., 1835 AD.

o 65/67: 90% is <= 24 gen., >= 1410 AD; 70% is <= 16 gen., >= 1610; 50% is <= 12 gen., >= 1710 AD.

Should you match in the range of 62-64/67: You share a common ancestor, who may or may not have lived in a genealogic time frame.

o 64/67: 90% is <= 31 gen., >= 1235; 70% is <= 22 gen., >= 1460; 50% is <= 16 gen., 1610.

o 63/67: 90% is <= 37 gen., >= 1085 AD; 70% is <= 27 gen., >= 1330 AD; 50% is <= 21 gen., >= 1480 AD.

o 62/67: 90% is <= 43 gen., >= 930 AD; 70% is <= 32 gen., >= 1200 AD; 50% is <= 26 gen., >= 1360 AD.

We've have spent a number of blog entries discussing the statistical meaning of matches. You do not need to completely understand statistics or probability, though. What you do need to do is to investigate the family trees of anyone who closely matches you. For example, with a "perfect" match of 67/67, you and the other person should be able to find your common ancestor fairly easily. One hopes that each of you has some information about your mutual family tree so that you each gain significant new information. After all, that's why you chose to participate in this project.

The good news is that eventually sufficient y-DNA records and pedigrees will exist to satisfy every participant's desire for knowledge of their roots!

Best wishes as we move towards that goal.

Lalia

37-Marker Matches and What They Mean

Hi,

What happens when you test 37 markers? Does a match of 36 out of 37 markers, commonly abbreviated as 36/37, mean more than 23/24?

Here is some more information from Ralph Taylor on what matches mean when we have 37 loci or markers to consider.

37-marker matches get even more precise. For example, if you share 35, 36 or 37 markers with another Taylor (or someone with your surname, if you are not looking at Taylor project results!) then you share a common ancestor, probably within a genealogic time frame.

o A perfect 37/37: The chances are 90% that your TMRCA is <= 19 generations, >= 1530 AD; 70% prob. is <= 10 gen, >= 1760 AD; 50% is <= 6 gen., >= 1860 AD.

o 36/37: 90% is <= 32 gen., >= 1210 AD; 70% is <= 20 gen., >= 1500 AD; 50% is <= 14 gen., >= 1660 AD.

o 35/37: 90% is <= 45 gen., >= 885 AD; 70% is <= 30 gen., >= 1260 AD; 50% is <= 22 gen., >= 1460 AD.

However when you have 37 markers to compare, and you don't match 35 or more, such as 33-34/37: You share a common ancestor, but probably not within a genealogic time frame.

§ 34/37: 90% is <= 57 gen., >= 580 AD; 70% is <= 40 gen., >= 1000 AD; 50% is <= 31 gen., >= 1235 AD.

§ 33/37: 90% is <= 69 gen., >= 285 AD; 70% is <= 50 gen., >= 760 AD; 50% is <= 40 gen., >= 1010 AD.

When we get to 32 matches out of 37, or worse: You may share a common ancestor, but the probability that he lived in within a genealogic time frame is small. The 50% probability level for a 32/37 match is <= 51 generations, >= 735 AD.

For some of you, these discussions of probability and statistics are dull. However, they are necessary to understand the meaning of genetic genealogy. We will have future posts with specific examples. For now, consider that your surname is Taylor. You have a family tree with some degree of confidence. Your fourth cousin, another male Taylor descended from the same line also tests. Now, if you match 37/37 or 36/37, this suggests that the family tree is correct for both of you. If, however, your match is 32/37 or less, the family tree is not correct for one or both of you. Because two males from the same male line, only separated by 6 generations would not differ to this extent.

May all your genealogical puzzles be solved!

Lalia

25-Marker Matches

What happens if/when we have 25-marker matches?

Well, the good news is that 25-marker matches allow finer interpretations:

· 24-25/25: You share a common ancestor, probably within a genealogic time frame. (The numbers of generations & dates below are approximate.)

¨ A perfect 25/25: The chances are 90% that your most recent common ancestor is within the past 28 generations, roughly since 1300 AD. It’s 70% that the time to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) is within 15 generations >= 1630 AD and 50% the TMRCA is <= 9 gen., >= 1780 AD. Thus, as we will find out when we look at greater numbers of markers, discovering a "perfect" 25/25 match only means that you share an ancestor who lived about 1300 (90% probability) to 1780 (50% probability).

A 24/25 match means even less. 24/25: The 90% probable TMRCA is <=48 gen, >= 800 AD; 70% is <= 30 gen., >= 1260 AD; 50% is <= 21 gen., >= 1480 AD.

Matching 23/25 may not illuminate your genealogical studies at all, as your common ancestor may have preceeded records with surnames. 23/25 or worse: You share a common ancestor, but he may not have lived within a genealogic time frame

Looking at this in terms of generations, instead of years, the match of 23/25: 90% TMRCA is <= 67 gen., >= 330 AD; 70% is <= 46 gen., >= 860; AD; 50% is <= 34 gen., >= 1160 AD.

While a 22/25 match means even less. 22/25: 90% TMRCA is <= 86 gen., >= 140 BC; 70% is <= 61 gen., >= 480 AD; 50% is <= 47 gen., >= 830 AD.

Input from Ralph Taylor and Lalia Wilson

Eastman's article on y-DNA as a genealogy tool

Hi,

I'll just put the link here. I don't agree with every word, nor with all the numerous comments, but the majority is good information.

http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2009/07/how-dna-proved-my-family-tree-connection.html

Lalia

Finding People Who Match Your Results

Having done (ideally) 67 markers, you then look at the results page, and you may not find any matches within the listed Taylor results. Do not despair! You have several options.

Your first option is to wait until another Taylor joins the project and matches your results.

Second, you can search the entire Family Tree DNA database, if you indicate that you do not want to limit your search to the Taylor surname. It may be that you have a match with the last name Cruse, or Obama, or Robinson! Why could this be true? Because not all people carry the surname of their biological father. And when they have children, their children will carry (usually) the name of the father, so the "false" name is propogated down generations.

A third option is to upload your markers to www.ysearch.org to find matches with those who had testing done by other companies.

While you are going through this process, you should still work on refining your research on your own family tree. That is the family tree you want to post to the Taylor DNA project, and it is the family tree you want to share with people who match your results.

The best of luck to you on this! Our goal is to fully document all the Taylor lines! Fortunately, we won't run out of fun doing this job in the near future!